Xamarin license is not perpetual anymore

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  • SharbelWiredSharbelWired USMember ✭✭

    I'm glad I read this thread in its entirety because I was about to say 'screw it' regarding purchasing licenses for our company. Nice to see that Xamarin listened to their customers. I honestly think the pricing is too high, but I will continue to consider it.

  • DanielHarmanDanielHarman USUniversity

    Is this thread still sinking?

  • RudaRuda BRUniversity ✭✭

    @DanielHarman,

    Yes! Unfortunately yes!

  • ChrisAChrisA GBMember

    I'm one of two guys running a very small software company that's only just holding its own. I also tutor home-educated kids in maths, science and computing. My business partner and I were considering Xamarin as a development platform for our just-starting mobile stream, and I was considering using it to teach bright teenagers to program.

    This pricing structure is almost certainly a deal-breaker for me.

  • GenCode_OLDGenCode_OLD USMember

    WOW Joseph, Really, as one of your iOS customers I am soooooooooo happy, I was not going to add Android version, but reading this today I am going to get the Android Version, thanks for listening!

  • NielsCupNielsCup NLMember ✭✭✭

    Pfew... I just bought a licence, when I came across this thread. I was about to use 30 day money back guarantee. I am glad I kept on reading to the 2nd page. Hopefully the renewal fee will drop to half the price so I can turn that on as well.

  • LeifRaskLeifRask AUMember

    I just had to install Xamarin on a new MacBook Pro for development purposes, and discovered this full annual subscription cost of $999 per year per dev. $999pa is a very high maintenance cost - too high!

    Xamarin support has confirmed the following (as I first subscribed pre-Nov 13):

    Q. "If I understand correctly, I can continue to use the software version that I paid for (without updates and new features) without continuing to renew?"

    A. "That is absolutely correct! Those licenses will continue to allow you to develop for the current operating systems that are currently supported. Your apps on the app store will continue to function and you can continue to create fixes for those apps. However, you'll need to renew if you need to reach newer versions of operating systems when they are released."

    After installing Xamarin on the new MacBook, it only installs as a "Starter" edition given my currently expired license. I am still trying to get it to 'recognise' my originally purchased Business licence so that I can continue to use functionality already purchased. Still waiting on support to get back to me....

    Not happy. Great product, but maintenance cost is way too high to justify it.

  • LeifRaskLeifRask AUMember

    Further on this and renewal costs. I purchased Xamarin Business edition in Jan 2013 for USD399. One year later, the maintenance cost (usually 10-20% initial pp) is USD999 - that's 250% annual cost increase just to access updates on purchased software. Even for initial purchases, this is a massive price increase in one year.

    Having spoken to a support person today to try to get a link to the software I purchased initially in Jan 2013 (so I can use it at all), I'm still waiting..... I have a feeling that he's gone home for the weekend rather than sending me a link. His first correspondence for the day was at 5PM San Francisco time (just before it was time to knock off).

    The best indicator of a company is how well it treats its existing customers. Having been in software and IT management for over 15 years this is shameful.

    If anyone with power to provide a link is still working, I'd like this resolved. Thank you.

  • JohnRavenJohnRaven USUniversity

    Only too happy to have missed this drama, since my subscription has only expired a couple of months ago. An unfortunate gaffe for Xamarin given the high quality of the product and the clear intent it has to build a trusting and involved community in the world of software development. Hopefully this will not have to be revisited, as the points made about unwavering pricing and [even] trying to hide the dirty threads, would have not come about without this.. final straw.

    "You can continue to buy our standard Indie, Business, and Enterprise products under terms that allow the tools to continue working for versions of the software released during your active subscription period."

    Thanks Joseph. Of course the flip-side to this is that there needs to be hassle-free download links available to get the most recent version of, say, Xamarin.Mac that was available when my meter ran out. Upon downloading again I ended up with version 1.2.42. Oops - that version is from waaay back. It was a messy job of Googling that made it possible to find a direct link for the "xamarin.mac-1.8.1.6.pkg", and I am not entirely positive that this is the last version which I was entitled to.

    Oh, and the reinstallation exercise was because, in Xamarin studio, the Xamarin.Mac upgrade pops up with nary an indication that this upgrade will not work with my expired subscription installation, whereas the Android and iOS expired notices make that as clear as a bell. For those of us who need to save up some cash between subscription renewals, please consider making a better download mechanism - we are not cheap, just not rich.

  • JohnRavenJohnRaven USUniversity

    Sigh .. besides installing too new a Xamarin.Mac version (above), being that my subscription ran out - there was also no indicator that installing Xamarin Studio version 5.4 was a "Bad Thing" (tm)(c). That utterly FUBARed my view of choices on my Download page. Putting 5.2.1 back on my system makes the correct download version(s) appear {yay}.

    Indie-pendence it a b****; expired indie-pendence is a b****-fight-to-the-death.

  • JReevesJReeves USMember

    This may be a dead thread (not certain), however, I am new to Xamarin and its core principles. I have noticed a continuing trend on the open market in regards to App deployment. With the new 'Policy' and/or 'Annual Subscription Platform' in essence what the company has done is made it so that it is not economical for private/small developers to have their share of the market. Essentially they are playing the gate-keepers by making their product 'unattainable' for emerging companies/developers to thrive. For instance, take the Ouya project...openSource gaming platform with complete customization options and no extra fees. Ubuntu/Kubuntu linux...free openSource. Keyword here is 'openSource'. I am a firm believer in paying for a product one time...but not for the life of the software. Xamarin is a great product...took may developers countless hours to create (granted), however, without a following you are bound to obscurity in the modicum of dead languages. Developers need to come together as a community and share in the direction that the development is evolving. I am sure that there are some great developers in this thread alone. So my question to you Xamarin (as a whole)...are you going to return your project to the same freedom of development to which you began this, one without boundaries or restrictions; or continue to suppress emerging developers ability to 'afford' to have their products utilized? Don't forget...you didnt start this project alone-it took a community to make it happen. Think about it.

  • JoelFungJoelFung ATMember

    I would like to thank everyone in this thread because thanks to YOU the license didn't changed for the bad. I have started to love Xamarin but this move definitely put a bad taste in my mouth because is definitely a move i didn't expected from a "SERIOUS" Company. What personally bothers me is that Xamarin as a whole treat People as if everyone is or has a Company which is wrong. When you think about it then it suddendly makes sense on why they made this move. They don't care about Hobby coders or People with small Budgets as in there eyes everyone that Register here is at least part of a comporation or something.

    I think that has to Change because if that never happen i fear this is not going to be the first time the Xamarin policy as well as strategy is going to Change for the bad.

  • MichaelBothMichaelBoth AUMember ✭✭✭

    Joel, are you saying $30 or so a month is not affordable for hobbyists? If so, then that is a problem with your attitude, not a problem with Xamarin pricing. Yes, I would prefer there was some 'official' support for my Indie Xamarin Mac license BUT I can see that this is not reasonable given the price I'm paying. A hobby is something you do if you have time and can afford it; it's not Xamarin's responsibility to make sure your hobby is affordable.

    Also, if Xamarin is not a 'serious' company and doesn't care about people with small budgets, why do they make this offer to students:
    https://xamarin.com/student
    ?

    If you’re a student enrolled in a degree or diploma-granting course of study at an accredited college, university, or high school, you can use Xamarin Studio to build and publish amazing, native mobile apps and games on iOS and Android in C# with Xamarin Indie for free.

  • JoelFungJoelFung ATMember
    edited December 2014

    $30 a month is affordable and i'm not saying otherwise but not everyone can. Obviously those who live in a 1st world Country like us will probably laugh about those $30 a moth or €24,53 for me. However there are others that may not have even that Money at all as they have low income or even worst... they live in a 3rd world Country. What i'm talking about here is the fact that Xamarin sees everyone as a "Business" Person and that may affect the way they develope there strategy. The move described in this thread as Well as the fact that this thread doesn't even Show up at the top are more than enough signs of that.

    Just to clarify i didn't meant to call Xamarin not a "SERIOUS" Company as we know by a fact they are. Other than that i was surprised that a "SERIOUS" Company like Xamarin did such a move and flagged this thread the way they did which in my opinion is a shaddy move i didn't expect from again..... a "SERIOUS" Company. Also when talking about not caring about People with small Budget and Hobby coders i meant something different. I was trying to explain there current view towards People that Register here and purchase there licenses as in there eyes you are just another corporate member rather than a Hobby coder with a small Budget probably.

    You have a good Point in your link but remember... not everyone that has small Budget or is a Hobby coder is a Student. Sure is not there responsability and i agree with you on that but i personally believe that a more balanced pricing strategy is required here. I personally don't like there pricing strategy as stated but is not a Problem either for me to purchase the one i Need. However i strongly believe that they should re-think more about there strategy in order to attract more People to use there great Tools. I for one have been spreading the word about Xamarin to all developers i know across the world and so have they done as well. After the move described in this thread and the way this thread has been treaten i will be careful on how i spread the word about Xamarin in the future and so i will let those who heard from me know as well. Again, not because i don't believe that Xamarin is a "SERIOUS" Company but more because the moves they did this time left a bad taste in my mouth and i'm going to be more careful in the future.

    For instance... this is in my opinion a great move by Xamarin
    http://forums.xamarin.com/discussion/29809/xamarin-and-visual-studio-2013-2014-community-edition#latest

    It's just unclear to me right now whatever it also applies to us who have a Indie license.

  • JReevesJReeves USMember

    @ Michael; Joel: You guys are missing the point. Xamarin has limited 'accessibility' to deploy specific assets within the program unless you pay $999/yr. You can get away with Xamarin deployment barely for base level 'crap-apps' (basically apps no one really wants), however, most would utilize Visual Studio porting for this (a 'perk' only available in Business). Even though you can 'force port' Xamarin.android and Xamarin.ios into Visual Studio, it still only permits you to deploy for 24 hours without a license prompting a splash screen message "This is made with evaluation software and is only available for 24 hours". Furthermore, the price for a Visual Studio license ranges from a 1 use at $399 to a whopping $13,560 full featured. So for an emerging developer (grass roots assuming/unschooled) the total for a starter pack will run them nearly $1300 (which is cheap considering). But this is assuming one actually makes a ROT (return on investment). Bottom line...for extensions for cross-platform sharing/portability the Xamarin.Forms (and the dependacies involved) should be a one time fee for use, if you want development support, live training, and code evaluation-you should have to pay. The best way to become successful is to cater to your target audience...the consumer. Not exclude the many to satisfy the few. Because the way i see it...Xamarin is going to become just like one of those elitist fraternities who makes it nearly impossible for the underprivileged to afford their product.

  • MichaelBothMichaelBoth AUMember ✭✭✭

    How am I missing the point? I don't do mobile development, but my Indie Xamarin Mac subscription is good value for money, and I will recoup my investment in the software many, many times over when the product I'm working on goes to market.

    "Xamarin is going to become just like one of those elitist fraternities who makes it nearly impossible for the underprivileged to afford their product."

    Xamarin are a business, not a charity. I am glad they are making software development tools for professionals, and not catering to the low end of the market. "Underprivileged" is hardly the word that comes to mind when I think of people with a PC, electricity and an internet connection ... come now...

  • JReevesJReeves USMember

    @Michael Both: Not to get off topic with the matter at hand....game developers, software engineers or hobbyists-shouldn't matter. Merely because you spent thousands of dollars at collage, hundreds developing a company and hiring/training workers doesn't grant you the privilege of being catered to. If you recall Microsoft got their start in a garage, as did Nirvana as did Trump. So to exclude the basement developers or the 'low end of the market' as you are so eager to forward, what you are supporting is a closed-system economy that limits your market share. I have a background in law and finance as well as software/hardware development and seen where this thinking leads. As an emerging company/idea Xamarin cannot flourish moving forward the way they are now. Reason-Most hackers are basement developers. Within less than six months time there will be code patches, keygens, and product cloning which will make it available for users to download and deploy with full features for free. I do not agree with this. Xamarin should be paid for what they have developed...it is an amazing product and has the potential to revolutionize the industry. HOWEVER, the high price will force individuals desperate to have their builds seen by the public to utilize less contentious methods of achieving it. And there is not a developer in this forum who has at one time or another not used cloned/cracked software because the product price was too high [though I don't expect you to admit it].

    @Xamarin: What I would do in your present situation. Charge the monthly/annual nominal fee for support and development assistance [but allow full access to Xamarin and portability into Visual Studio] and surcharge a percentage [Like 10%] for all builds deployed to market using Xamarin extension and/or forms. This way you can not only cater to the 'emerging developers' [instead of calling them 'low end users'] limited budget as well as lessen the burden of established developers so they can focus assets on deploying their app more cost efficiently...but it will also generate for Xamarin passive income. The Indie subscription fee is fair for full use of Xamarin. For support and development assistance it should be more [but like $50/month] or charge a Per Diem assessment fee [like Microsoft does]. This way you will expand your market share to all encompass every developer as well as make equity from their builds. I believe in your product and your developers...and fully support your mission. Best of luck to you and happy holdiays.

  • AleStrAleStr ITMember

    @LeifRask said:
    Further on this and renewal costs. I purchased Xamarin Business edition in Jan 2013 for USD399. One year later, the maintenance cost (usually 10-20% initial pp) is USD999 - that's 250% annual cost increase just to access updates on purchased software. Even for initial purchases, this is a massive price increase in one year.

    Also with us they are behaving in the same way!
    1 year ago we bought 3 licenses (2 Andro, 1 iOS) for $1,999.00, now they ask us $2,997.00 to renew the subscription. It’s an increase of 50%!
    In my experience with other software tools and components seller the renew price is always less than the starting price. We act the same with our customers. It's a smart policy to not lose existing customers.

    Xamarin seems a promising platform, but not yet enough mature, suffering often of regressions, especially Xama Forms that we use intensely.
    During this year we have found many problems and bugs that we have reported to the support. Almost all times we had to explain precisely how to reproduce the problem and prepare and send the full solution sources. Sometimes we have received a workaround, a bug fix, sometimes we had to “fix” our-self implementing a workaround.
    So we spent a lot of time managing Xamarin problems.

    I hope they will offer some smarter license policy!

    Alessandro Strazzari

  • AleStrAleStr ITMember

    An idea may be to offer for renewal an lower year fee with a limited nr of support incidents. The additional incidents will have a price.

  • ScottJohnstonScottJohnston CAMember

    Anyone know how the microsoft deal effects the current product?

    We want to continue development in Xamarin Studio (on MacOS), and want to avoid any dependencies on Visual Studio or MSDN. Our account rep is increasingly avoiding us on the question of:

    1) Will our current continue to work after our licence expires?
    2) What is the plan for licencing the Xamarin Studio product going forward?

  • DaveHuntDaveHunt USMember ✭✭✭✭✭
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