How to make .Forms stable…?

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  • JeremyHerbisonJeremyHerbison CAMember ✭✭

    Indeed. I've seen lots of activity in bugzilla, which is exactly what they should be doing. There is no indication that progress on XF has stalled, other than a lack of forum posts. Relax!

  • JSCote.7213JSCote.7213 USMember

    In the end, I think people are just eager to get a version that is more stable. That is a testimony of how important this product is to the community. And that is a vocal community, which Xamarin should be grateful for.

    I haven't started yet on my product and I'm slightly worried that I will spend a little too much time fighting bugs that aren't really mine. I did a prototype a few months ago and I didn't really run into any issues like that so I'm still hopeful it won't be too painful.

  • jonathanyatesjonathanyates GBMember ✭✭✭
    edited May 2015

    @Ota Mares

    As part of the company you outght to be less critical of the developer community and be more understanding. Xamarin does not answer for 1 month against an (un)Stable build which is shocking. There are many of us out here stuggling to develop with XF right now, and you seem to think we are just going crazy!

    Yes MS are investing more time in open source, as well as cross platform technlogies. Humm, makes you think what the future is for Xamarin doesn't it.

  • OtaMaresOtaMares DEMember ✭✭

    jonathan for clarifications :) i am not involved with xamarin at all! just a happy customer, same as you.

  • jonathanyatesjonathanyates GBMember ✭✭✭
    edited May 2015

    I see. Sounded like you were as you appeared to have inside information regarding MS and Xamarin. You must be the only happy customer out there right now.

  • NMackayNMackay GBInsider, University mod

    @void

    I agree wholeheartedly with those comments.

  • jonathanyatesjonathanyates GBMember ✭✭✭

    Yes I agee, although I don't think we are so much as letting off stream. We are genuinely trying to reach out to help and get a stable release. X should be right on the button with collaborating, but 1 month on and nothing.

  • FredyWengerFredyWenger CHInsider ✭✭✭✭✭

    @void: + 1 - well said

  • JahnOttoAndersenJahnOttoAndersen NOMember

    Is it possible to do MVVM with named properties the same way as we do with XAML with native iOS/Android UI?

  • jonathanyatesjonathanyates GBMember ✭✭✭

    Not sure I understand the question, or whether it's relevent to this thread. You don't use Xaml for native iOS/Android.
    But in Xamarin Forms you definately can, and should, use MVVM and bind to properties.

  • JahnOttoAndersenJahnOttoAndersen NOMember

    Let me rephrase :-)

    I am using Xamarin Forms for a project. I am using MVVM and binding to properties and all that jazz. If I need to convert to native iOS/Android UI because of the Xamarin Forms bugs, I am wondering if I can use the same view models and bind the native UI to this.

  • NMackayNMackay GBInsider, University mod

    @JahnOttoAndersen

    MVVMCross and MVVM Light will allow you to use an MVVM approach in native, it's not as nice IMO but it's there as an option.

  • JahnOttoAndersenJahnOttoAndersen NOMember

    @NMackay

    Thanks Norman! Hopefully I will not need to abandon Xamarin Forms, but I'll check it out :)

  • NMackayNMackay GBInsider, University mod

    @JahnOttoAndersen

    I'm hanging in there too, I'd rather use the Forms/XAML approach coming from a WPF background and it's very close despite the issues.

  • jonathanyatesjonathanyates GBMember ✭✭✭

    Humm, interesting. Yeah here's a link.

    https://github.com/MvvmCross/MvvmCross/wiki/Tip-Calc-A-Xamarin.iOS-UI-project

    Even more interesting that you're considering this instead of XF. Might take a look myself.

  • NMackayNMackay GBInsider, University mod
  • SilverBleachSilverBleach ZAMember

    My (many months old) bug was confirmed this week (and other people reported the same), so I'm sure Xamarin is working on X.F. But I understand the frustration of not knowing what's happening.

    I think Microsoft is giving a good example of a company trying to be very upfront about their work and direction (esp with Windows 10). It isn't perfect (people still complain a lot, Microsoft blunders from time to time, etc), but overall, it seems to be working great for them.

  • FredyWengerFredyWenger CHInsider ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SilverBleach :
    Thanks for your posting here and redirect this thread to the base theme :wink:
    I also have seen some actions to my filled bug's and that the most important for me is confirmed now and has the state "In Progress" now, what let me hope... :smiley:
    I also see some progress in the (also very annoying) theme with the VS-Integration regarding debugging here:

    forums.xamarin.com/discussion/41844/my-findings-after-test-if-the-newest-xamarin-vs-integration-software#latest

    So... maybe our postings are nevertheless noted by Xamarin and have some positive impact - who knows... :smirk:

  • AdamPAdamP AUUniversity ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks @MigueldeIcaza - Just knowing what you are up to and an estimated time of the next update is very much appreciated.

  • SKallSKall USMember ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2015

    @MigueldeIcaza thank you! Bugs getting ignored in Bugzilla was leaving a bad impression of the process and I am glad that is now being addressed. I have noticed activity on the bugs I have filed and cc'ed to so kudos to Xamarin for reacting to our feedback on the matter.

    We are battling an issue that was marked as a feature on XF, disabled layouts passing through touches to children, anyone else having the same issue and think there would be enough demand to request it as a feature (not to disable children but to make the layout ignore touch events)? This is causing a lot of extra code/work for us and it is issues like these that are making us question if it was wise to go with XF route as the time we have saved on native UI layers is being spent on XF workarounds.

  • JohnHardmanJohnHardman GBUniversity mod

    @MigueldeIcaza - Thanks for the update Miguel. Is there any way of making the activity more visible on an on-going basis? For example, if you maintain a backlog of the items being worked on for a cycle, could that be made visible? If there are estimates etc on those items, that would be even better, but just knowing what is being worked on within a cycle gives us some indication of whether we need to spend time investigating workarounds ourselves.

    Thanks,

    John H.

  • FredyWengerFredyWenger CHInsider ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks @MigueldeIcaza for your feedback here :smiley:

  • TektonTekton USMember ✭✭✭
    edited May 2015

    @MigueldeIcaza The Xamarin team's efforts don't go unnoticed. If some of us, at least myself, seem a bit impatient, it is that I think we can see the true value behind this platform. I'm not simply talking about Xamarin.Forms. I'm talking about your original idea, which in and of itself is quite impressive. What's impressive, at least for me, is that you looked at something many people said was impossible, and you found them not entirely correct.

    What you created is something that has the potential to greatly amplify the economy, and not simply for us developers. The frustrating part is that it feels like that in order to be a part of the 'club', we have to submit more, immediately, than any bean counter would give us mere developers. That makes it extremely difficult, knowing the state of development (roughly).

    While I'll try not to be too philosophical, here, I can't help but to think about some things I was taught, when I was younger, about economics. Others may not agree, but I'd hope if they don't, they wouldn't be quiet; we all need to be heard (thus the forums):

    A business that refuses to take a short-term loss, for a long-term gain is stealing. That sounds harsh, sure. Although, I think you're the kind of person that would recognize it for what it is; something to think about. Sometimes, it makes sense to make a calculated risk, and give people keys that they may not otherwise normally be given, if say everything was stable. I think if people felt like, "Hey, Xamarin really wants us to be successful with their product!" you'd find that you have a much deeper loyalty than you'd ever be able to create, if you simply go about it as if this were all business as usual. There's nothing usual about this product, in my opinion. There is so much potential here, I'm not even sure if I could easily put it with any fewer words.

  • TektonTekton USMember ✭✭✭
    edited May 2015

    @plynkus

    I'd suggest that everybody keep an eye on their own bug lists (resolved issues don't show up by default---though you can alter your search criteria to see them) and make sure nothing is swept under the rug. Deferrals, demotions to "feature request" where applicable, etc., are certainly expected at times. But no true defect that a customer took the time to document and file should be ignored. Re-open them. Re-emphasize why they matter.

    I have to second this one. Actually there are a number of really great points in this thread, altogether. This one I think is one of the more important things to consider. I can't expect that Xamarin could keep up with all our problems, as if they were in our shoes (they're not exactly, but pretty similar shoes).

  • GautamJainGautamJain INMember ✭✭✭

    +1 to what @FredyWenger expressed. Totally agree.

  • NMackayNMackay GBInsider, University mod

    @MigueldeIcaza

    Thanks for the update, it's much appreciated and reassuring.

  • JKayJKay USMember ✭✭✭

    +1

  • FredyWengerFredyWenger CHInsider ✭✭✭✭✭

    It seems, as Xamarin right now really spend power in the process to clean-out Bugzilla (I have received various state-changed-mails and additional requests from Bugzilla).

    Although Xamarin don’t have requested me (as I suggested in the my initial-posting in this thread), I have done a
    complete review of all my already filled bugs:

    • Retest of the bug (if not clear that it has gone or still exists)
    • Review of the bug-description

    If the bug has gone, I have added a comment like:

    As I don't see this bug in the latest XF-Version, I set this bug to resolved myself to help Xamarin by the clean-out of Bugzilla.

    and set the bug to “Resolved” myself.

    If also other users have posted (like “same problem here” or similar), I have posted a new message, that the bug is solved for me and the other users please should also confirm or ad a new comment (but I this case, I don’t set it to “Resolved”).

    To the still existing bug’s, I have added a comment “still exits in the latest XF-Version" or similar.

    So I was able to “bring down the counter of “my” bugs from 25 to 11 (and also bring down the overall counter for 14).

    Maybe you also can (and will :smirk: ) do that, so we can force the clean-out of Bugzilla what will help us all to go forward faster..? :innocent: :sunglasses: :innocent:

  • NilsLahrNilsLahr USMember, University

    Its not just that these are bugs in a new system... we bet our farm on Xamarin.Forms and have over half a million dollars riding on the fact that our app has to work. Its nice to see Windows 10 efforts, but not if it means .Forms is not stable enough to be production ready. I understand its new, but at this point it has to be stable enough to use, otherwise its really still a beta product.

  • FredyWengerFredyWenger CHInsider ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NilsLahr:
    Yes, and therefore we all (that have filled bugs) can help (on a constructive way), to make .Forms more stable in an shorter time when we help to do the house-keeping in Bugzilla, so that only the really open bugs remains :sunglasses:

  • JohnHardmanJohnHardman GBUniversity mod

    Although, as somebody who has spent a chunk of his working life doing Quality Management, test automation etc., I always worry about bugs that "go away" (my words) rather than being consciously fixed. My experience is that the majority of bugs that "go away" are really just hidden by another change, so bubble up again at a later date. So, whilst it is in everybody's interest to ensure that Bugzilla is kept up to date, I would be wary of marking anything Resolved without one of the people with access to the Xamarin source code actually saying they have done something to fix it.

  • FredyWengerFredyWenger CHInsider ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JohnHardman:
    That's correct principally and should not be necessary...

    But, I think, that:
    • the from the user as "Resolved" bug's are not deleted in the system automatically and also can be reactivated (as there are some bugs with state "Reopend" in Bugzilla) and further (hopefully) will be reviewed from Xamarin, before there are deleted persistent
    • if I have ("stone-old") bug's filled from September 2014, that still have the status "New" and I know, that I don't have this problem since months, it is not false to set the state to resolved (especially as normally also ("stone-old") version-information's are included to the bug-description) so if one of "my" bug's really is resurrected, I will post an new bug (with the actual version-information's) :smirk:
    • I further think, that it should help Xamarin, if a comment like "bug still exists in version X.XX" is added
    • and... I only have set bug's to resolved that don't had comments from other users like "same here" or something similar

    So... finally each user has to decide himself, if he want to do it...
    I personally think, it should help Xamarin to save time (and so will help us all to receive a new "stable" version sooner) :sunglasses:

  • JeremyHerbisonJeremyHerbison CAMember ✭✭
    edited May 2015

    While I appreciate what JohnHardman is saying, If they can't reproduce the bug, they're going to be closed anyway. So yes - please tidy up your bugs! Also, if you have one set to NEEDSINFO, please provide said info and then change it back to NEW (otherwise they will be neglected forever).

    In the past 2 weeks, all my reported bugs have been confirmed, which is nice.

  • FredyWengerFredyWenger CHInsider ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JKay:
    Thanks for posting the link here (it's really a theme that fit to the theme of this thread).
    I will fill it...
    @TheRealJasonSmith: Thanks for doing the survey :smile:

  • JKayJKay USMember ✭✭✭

    @TheRealJasonSmith Could you please sticky the Xamarin Forms Future Survey. It's too important to get lost on the forum

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