Is the MonoCross project dead?

Hi,

couple of days ago I started reading the MonoCross paperback book and noticed a couple of things that looked like, well, not "optimally implemented". So I thought, let's check out the monocross.net website and the MonoCross Google groups and also check the github repository.

  • The website's link "Community" shows an empty page
  • The Google groups don't seem to answer the most basic questions and there is only little activity
  • The Github repository was authored last time 3 months ago and iOS code is missing basic functionality, like using UIWindow.RootViewController or making use of view controller containment. (there are even pull requests which fix these issues!)

So I'm wondering: are the authors happy now because they sell a book and that was it? Is anybody in here actively using MonoCross (not MVVMCross!)?

In comparison, the MVVMCross project is very alive. Stuart is constantly adding functionality, however what I miss about MVVMCross: there is no convenient tutorial like for MonoCross - the book is a very good start for MonoCross, but for Stuart's branch based on MVVM, the learning curve seems to be much steeper.

I wanted to dive into MonoCross and get used to the practices and from there maybe move on to MVVMCross, but maybe I should directly jump into MVVM...

René

Best Answers

Answers

  • ChWoChWo DEMember

    I can't say anything about MonoCross but I think it's worth to jump into MvvmCross.
    If you are still using the old tools (before Xamarin 2.0) you can do the quickstart and Tutorial-Part-1.
    Both tutorials work with the old tools. After you have finished them you should have a feeling for the framework.

  • StuartLodgeStuartLodge USBeta ✭✭✭

    Thanks @Wosi for updating the tutorial.

    I'm also getting much closer to the first releases of 'Hot Tuna' v3 of MvvmCross. As part of that I do plan to finally make the documentation much better.

    Sorry - it's not in a better shape now - it's just balancing 'time' on code, versus time on QA, versus time on docs, versus time on nuget, versus getting on with the rest of life too :)

  • StuartLodgeStuartLodge USBeta ✭✭✭

    If it helps, here's what I plan for the documentation - http://slodge.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/mvvmcross-v3-documentation-plan.html

    But I'm not promising a 'when' on those documents!

  • BrainloopBrainloopBrainloopBrainloop DEBeta, University ✭✭

    @Wosi I'm already using the 2.0 versions. Why would the tutorials not work with these?
    @StuartLodge Not existing documentation is the main reason why I'm hesitating...the MonoCross book I started reading and it was an eye opener. If there was something similar for your project, that would be awesome.

  • StuartLodgeStuartLodge USBeta ✭✭✭

    @Krumelur Stop hesitating - just get on with building your app the way you want to. Whichever way you choose, you are bound to think of a thousand better ways for building it next time around.

  • StuartLodgeStuartLodge USBeta ✭✭✭

    PS I've tweeted some of the ITR guys - they'll be along shortly to tell you how MonoCross and IFactr 100% alive and totally awesome - in fact, they're just too busy to chat on forums like us layabouts :)

  • ChWoChWo DEMember

    I'm already using the 2.0 versions. Why would the tutorials not work with these?

    Maybe the tutorials work. Maybe not. I know they work with the old tools because I tested and updated them last month. Since the release of Xamarin 2.0 these tutorials are out of date. The situation of the PCL support is unclear (see here).

    I don't think to find the time to update to Xamarin 2.0 and get MvvmCross run in the next days. So I think it's easier to start with MvvmCross using MonoDevelop on Mac and Visual Studio on Windows (without the iOS plugin). I don't know if the compiled MvvmCross binaries work with Xamarin.Android and Xamarin.iOS. It's better to use Mono for Android and MonoTouch instead to avoid headaches. But if you like to give it a try then do it! Post your issues here and we will see to get it work.

  • BrainloopBrainloopBrainloopBrainloop DEBeta, University ✭✭

    But PCL support is to my knowledge not available for Xamarin.iOS and never has been, or am I wrong?
    Anyway, I'll give it a try.

  • BrainloopBrainloopBrainloopBrainloop DEBeta, University ✭✭

    @StuartLodge Well then they might migrate the pull requests that have been hanging around for months. I mean: using window.RootViewController instead of window.AddSubView() has been the default since what - iOS 5?

  • ChWoChWo DEMember

    @Krumelur
    There is a patched version of MonoDevelop you can use: http://slodge.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/a-patched-monodevelop-for-pcls.html

  • StuartLodgeStuartLodge USBeta ✭✭✭

    Please have patience with the MonoCross guys - I know how hard it is working on a free OSS project so encourage showing respect, courtesy and patience to the maintainers at all times.

    For PCL support:

  • BrainloopBrainloopBrainloopBrainloop DEBeta, University ✭✭

    If I am targeting iOS only at the moment, I could just compile your code against Xamarin.iOS and should not have to worry about PCLs, right?

  • StuartLodgeStuartLodge USBeta ✭✭✭

    right

  • BrainloopBrainloopBrainloopBrainloop DEBeta, University ✭✭

    @StuartLodge Any feedback wrt your tweets?

  • BrainloopBrainloopBrainloopBrainloop DEBeta, University ✭✭

    @StuartLodge Haha! Very good! But that makes it easier for me: MonoCross is not the way to go.

  • StuartLodgeStuartLodge USBeta ✭✭✭

    @Krumelur aside from the early morning humour, I'd still give them some more time. There are a lot of good coders and authors behind monocross and iFactr. Maybe responding to threads like this on the Xam forum just isn't on their priority list right now.

    Regardless, also remember that you don't need a framework. Your app is the king - and the king is the king is the king.

  • BrainloopBrainloopBrainloopBrainloop DEBeta, University ✭✭

    I know, I know. But it's not only this forum. It's also the fact that there hasn't been any activity on Github for quite some time and if there isn't a (big) community it's harder to get answers. Still, I LOVE the idea behind MonoCross.

    @StuartLodge Allow me one more question: if somebody has played with Microsoft's MVVM, knows the use of controllers, view models and views and built websites, is the learning curve using your framework still as steep as it is for a "noob"?

  • StuartLodgeStuartLodge USBeta ✭✭✭
    edited February 2013

    if somebody has played with Microsoft's MVVM, knows the use of controllers, view models and views and built websites, is the learning curve using your framework still as steep as it is for a "noob"?

    I'm not the best person to ask!

    The learning curve has quite a few elements:

    • do users already know Mvvm?
    • do users already know/understand IoC?
    • do users already know/understand the platform they are targetting?

    If you already have experience of Mvvm, IoC and Droid/Touch dev, then you should get going quicker.

    Quite a few people who come to me with questions are doing their first ever MonoTouch and their first ever Mvvm so they get confused in all sorts of ways :) A couple of people have even come asked me questions because it's their first C#...

    I believe many people get stuck/frustrated on setup issues - which is unfortunate. I hope these are getting better, but right now we're in a little transitional period while we iron out some kinks with the new Xam tools... and after that will be 3 other transitional periods when: full PCL support arrives; full async support arrives; v3 Hot Tuna arrives....

    But assuming you can get through the setup, then I believe most people seem to just get on with coding their apps pretty quickly...

    Like I say, I'm not the best person to ask... it works on my machine :)

  • StuartLodgeStuartLodge USBeta ✭✭✭

    in fact, ask someone like @Wosi

  • BrainloopBrainloopBrainloopBrainloop DEBeta, University ✭✭

    @StuartLodge Will you be at Evolve? If yes, we could have some knowledge transfer there maybe.

  • StuartLodgeStuartLodge USBeta ✭✭✭
    edited February 2013
  • AnekKanokapiwatAnekKanokapiwat THMember
    edited March 2013

    Monocross,look like they moving to commercial product iFactr, http://ifactr.com/

    MvvmCross look great,I just seen youtube clip & slide of it. Thank to make great tools.

    I looking forward to support Winphone8.

    (because Winphone7 have some problem on International Charactor,I don't know that problem still on Windows 7.8 or not,I don't read/test about 7.8 yet).

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